social shifts : from Taboo to "Normal"





the current Austrian incest imprisonment story is so icky and gross ... after noting that this is not the first occurence in Austria, I started Googling to see if there was a pattern and while reading up on the research, I stumbled onto a couple of rather curious articles ... well they certainly made me reach for the barf bag ... but what it does seem to reveal is that ... for all the dark secret taboos out there, there are always others across the world practising the same things - and with the internet, these ppl are contacting each other and hence feeling validated or "normalised" in this process ... hmm from a Social intellectual perspective - I thought hmm this seems to be an interesting new shift .. an accellerated shift in the taboo norrmalisation process

having travelled in Egypt, Rome and Greece and being rather surprised by the ancient practices   - I also started to think about cultural practices, taboos and what we view as normal in our 21st century Christian Protestant world view

the thought of Incest for eg. makes us very nauseous ... but was common in Egypt and in fact mentioned rather nonchalantly in the Old testament.  As was Paedo/gay polygamy in Ancient Greece ... all this seemed to go away for about 2000 years ... but I wonder whether with the speed of Internet communication, if these rather "out-dated and recently outlawed" practices will make a come back, a gradual return to "normal cultural practice" ... currently we've already seen a return of Porn as mainstream, after nude portrayal disappeared post-Victorian age ... hmmm

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here are the articles that raised my eyebrows

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Archive/ Article/0,4273,4331603,00.html


Forbidden love
Can sex between close relatives ever be acceptable? Johann Hari on the queasy issue of 'consensual' incest
Johann Hari
Guardian - Wednesday January 9, 2002

It was a Friday night a few months ago. Rob was standing on my doorstep, ashen and trembling. He still couldn't speak even as he sipped at a mug of tea after my flatmate and I had ushered him into our front room. We could not guess what had happened, but a feeling of dread was fast forming in our minds; we could only assume that something terrible must have happened to Rob's fiancee, Karen. Gradually, his powers of speech returned and the story emerged. Something had happened, but that something was terrible to Rob himself, not Karen.

Now, you have to understand that Rob and Karen were the most balanced, wholesome couple I knew. They had recently moved out of their flat while it was being redecorated, each returning to their respective family homes for a couple of weeks. That Friday, she had left her keys at his place by accident. He was passing by her parents' place later that night, so he stopped off and rang the doorbell.

No answer. So he let himself in to leave the keys, with a note, on the kitchen table for her mum and dad to return to her. Only, the house wasn't empty - he heard some movement in the front room. In an instant, he blundered in on Karen - the woman he was due to marry - having sex. With her dad.

Not her stepfather. Not her adopted father. Her actual, biological dad. She was 22 years old. There was clearly no coercion taking place.

Three weeks passed. Rob had called off the wedding - obviously - and was trying to put his life back together. One morning, he got a call from Karen, asking if they could meet up to divide their mutual belongings, the accumulation of over three years' cohabitation. He agreed.

Predictably, when they met, an argument began. "I don't know why you think it's so odd!" she screamed. "I know lots of people who do this." That stopped Rob in his tracks. "Who?"

(click link to read the full article)

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http://www.nytimes.com/books/97/03/30/ reviews/970330.cheever.html

Innocence Betrayed By SUSAN CHEEVER  
The past is a dangerous place. One look backward can turn you into salt, or cause the loss of the woman you love. For a writer, memory is treacherous and precious at the same time. Every now and then, though, a writer looks back with such bold clarity that it's as if we were living right along with the story. The work reverberates with similarities to our own experience, and with differences from our own experience, so that in the end it gives us a new way of looking at the world. Kathryn Harrison's memoir, ''The Kiss,'' is a book like this. ''A voice over the public-address system announces the final boarding call,'' Ms. Harrison writes of her father's departure after a weeklong visit when she was 20 years old -- the first time she had seen him in 10 years. ''As I pull away, feeling the resistance of his hand behind my head, how tightly he holds me to him, the kiss changes. It is no longer a chaste, closed-lipped kiss. My father pushes his tongue deep into my mouth: wet, insistent, exploring, then withdrawn. He picks up his camera case, and, smiling brightly, he joins the end of the line of passengers disappearing into the airplane.'' This is the kiss in the title of Ms. Harrison's powerful, disturbing new book, the story of an affair she had with her father when she was a college student with a slender body and long, long blond hair and he was a stocky, handsome middle-aged preacher. ''In years to come,'' she writes, ''I'll think of the kiss as a kind of transforming sting, like that of a scorpion: a narcotic that spreads from my mouth to my brain.'' But this story is not about her body or brain, it is about her soul, the soul of a young girl and the terrible injury inflicted by the man who should have been its protector. Writing in affectless prose that reflects the shutdown in her feelings, Ms. Harrison describes with submerged fury and sadness what it means to be a daughter and how it feels to be a young girl yearning for a love that probably doesn't exist even in a perfect family. ''It's too late for you,'' her father says near the end of the book, after they have slept together in a string of tacky motels and he has finally persuaded her to move into a bedroom off the kitchen in the house he shares with his new wife and children in the small town where he is a respected church leader. ''You've done what you've done, and you've done it with me. And now you'll never be able to have anyone else, because you won't be able to keep our secret.''
http://www.amazon.com/Kiss-Kathryn- Harrison/dp/0380731479

(click above link for full article)



Yikes...
yea its very Yikes ... and definitely ewwwwww puke

a more detailed article by Time magazine - the crafty thing is that these pro-ex-taboo movements try to use Academic research to champion their cause ... hmmm

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/ article/0,9171,923966-1,00.htmlAttacking the Last Taboo
As in any propaganda campaign, the words and terms used to describe incest are beginning to change. The phrase "child abuse" is distinguished from "consensual incest" involving a parent, and "abusive incest" is different from "positive incest." Some try to give the argument a bit of serious academic coloration, ransacking anthropological literature for a tribe or two that allows incest, or arguing that the incest taboo is dying of its own irrelevance. Rutgers Anthropologist Yehudi Cohen offers a simplified pseudohistorical argument: the taboo is a holdover of a primitive need to form personal alliances and trade agreements beyond the family. Since that is no longer necessary, he says, "human history suggests that the incest taboo may indeed be obsolete." Joan Nelson, a Californian who holds an M.A. in psychology from Antioch, has a special interest in the subject. She has launched the Institute for the Study of Sexual Behavior, and has passed out questionnaires looking for "good or bad" incestuous experiences.

Most of the chipping away at the taboo is still cautious and limited. Says John Money of Johns Hopkins, one of the best-known sex researchers in the nation: "A childhood sexual experience, such as being the partner of a relative or of an older person, need not necessarily affect the child adversely." Money and Co-Author Gertrude Williams complain in their forthcoming book Traumatic Abuse and Neglect of Children about the public attitude that "no matter how benign, any adult-child interaction that may be construed as even remotely sexual, qualifies, a priori, as traumatic and abusive." One who commits incest, say the authors, is like "a religious deviant in a one-religion society"­thus neatly planting the notion that opposition to incest is quite like religious intolerance.
I know it's slightly different, but with the rise of sex outside marriage, what surprised me was that it took so long for the issue to arise between siblings.  I remember a case in Austria (I think) about a year ago.  We then don't have quite such a clear issue of "abuse" as with parent-child, but there a greater risk of passing on hereditary diseases.

Hmmm, indeed, academics can spout a lot of rubbish and people will often swallow it hook, line and sinker because it comes from academics.  Unfortunately, if anyone dares to challenge Yehudi Cohen's arguments, then (based upon my understanding of his name, the cynic in be believes that) there is a higher than average chance they will get accused of anti-Semitism, which will neatly deflect the debate away from the issue at hand.
It seems also quite indicative of the times we live in too.  During the Falklands war, a broadsheet correspondent did a piece covering the Argentinian society, in which he described that the men would not think they had seduced a woman completely until they did something, which I don't need to describe here.  Suffice to say, back then, the reaction was complete disbelief that people would do such a thing, almost comparable to incest or necrophilia, whereas today it is featured in the pages of tabloid newspapers and the likes of FHM and Loaded, and portrayed as being a more normal thing.

Such are the times of we live in...
yea, Richardct ... its just an eg. of Academia gone completely off track and losing touch with reality (or as how society in general live and perceive things) ... reading some of the quotes from those academics, I can see how if used from the perspective of counselling child abuse victims, the reasoning could be used : in that, there is hope even after "bad things" have happened to you ... but yet its another quite matter, if another academic may then pick this up and elaborate to further advance a pro-paedo or pro-incest line hmmm incidentally, I watched a Nature documentary today and Lion herds actually start to oust their young males the moment they know he is coming into a mating age - this alone is evidence that nature itself knows better than to inbreed ...

hmmm the human mind is an incredible trickster of itself is it not, ... hmmm to turn loops upon itself until one does not know head or tail or orifice

Hi Stoney .. hmm yea: nudity, which FHM and the tabloids try to cash in on, is actaully a natural part of humans celebrating their form ... I've just returned from Greece and Egypt and even 3000 years ago humans were already obsessed with celebrating the beauty of the body.  Its only bec. we live in post-Victorian times that we tend to be more prudish about these things ... I've often wondered how the church who react if a sculptor that is part of their community suddenly took up a period of sculpting nudes ... there are certain craft processes which an artist needs to go through to get a  good "grasp" of the art ... ie the artist would need to touch other naked bodies to understand muscle textures and form, much as a doctor would ... but I tend to think that this activity would be frowned upon by the 'church' who ruled by the typical bourgeoise classes would see this as rather an affront to all good social conduct
(hence, interesting to observe that even the most celebrated artist at HTB, presents his sculpture to the chapel from the waist up with no breast exposed)


I think Stoney was referring to a particular sexual act, rather than simple nudity. An act which at one time was considered incredibly taboo and is now considered quite normal.
ohhhh i c Caz, hmm Stoney purlease eheh don't be so shy bout it hmm it is 2008 after, actually the more the church circles mention Oral sex the better, it'll be less of a taboo ... it shouldn't be one anyway, its not a sin .. unlike morbid necro, paedo, or zoopho or ever other crazy fetish they have ...

hmm in fact, probably the more christian women received orgasms the better i say - they won't be so up tight and generally its good for a marriage to have a healthy sex life ... hmm i've recently started thinking that with so many christians marrying late late late in life these days, they actually spend majority of their most reproductive lives thinking that sexual thoughts are an abomination and trying to fight their biological urges ... hmm from a psych point of view, i think this must have some effect on sexual identity of christians hmm an unhealthy view of sex .. hmm or eventual unsatisfied sex lives hmmm due to years of oppressing their minds, or training their minds to cancel out the biological receptors hmm

interest when observed further, the daily interactions between "code abiding" christians and the sexually expressed ppl of the secular world hmmm
Oooo icky - more and more of these stories are coming out as ppl speak out on this taboo over the internet
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http://women.timesonline.co.uk/tol/ life_and_style/women/families/ article4332635.ece

From The TimesJuly 15, 2008
I had sex with my brother but I don't feel guilty
A woman slept with her sibling for years and has good memories. Not many people understand their relationship, she saysStrangely enough, Daniel's wedding day didn't upset me at all. It was his 30th birthday six months later which really got to me, as he stood there with his wife Alison while they greeted the guests. I can honestly say that that was the only time when I felt real envy and wished desperately that it was me standing beside him, arms round each other as we showed the world how much we loved each other.It's not as if I'm not allowed to love Daniel, but the way we feel about each other isn't something that we can share easily with anyone else. Daniel is my brother, but since I was 14 we've had a sexual relationship - and that's not something that many people would feel comfortable with.